What to Do?!?!
 

Ok, this thread is kind of an off-shoot of my previous thread about pre-1933 gold. I want your guys' opinions.

If you could spend up to $3,500 on a pre-1933 gold piece, what would it be?

I kindly ask for your help. My head is spinning from looking at APMEX and Ebay all day long.

SOS!

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Do you think this is a decent deal? APMEX wants $3,235 for this beast:



https://www.apmex.com/Product/53338/...GC_G2000_.aspx

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

make this one an offer of $3k

http://cgi.ebay.com/1924-20-ST-GAUDE...d=p3286.c0.m14

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

personally I would look at the $5 Indians. 2 in ms63 would be kool.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

For some odd reason, the Indians don't really do much for me. I am really attracted to the Liberty Head Double Eagles and the Saints. I just don't know what is considered a decent deal in this day-in-age.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Why not buy 2 or 3 for that kind of money instead of just one?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

What do you mean?

Skip out on the graded MS66 and go for 2 or 3 ungraded ones? Do you think that would be a better idea?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I know even less about this stuff than you, but IMHO I would get TWO MS 64 saints for that price.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Gordon I would read a bit more about it first. The Indians like some unmentionables are an acquired taste.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

This one looks great! Get it. That's my humble vote.

edit: but don't just blindly pay their price! make them work for your business. do some research on that puppy and make sure the price is right.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

If you get a NGC MS66, use PCGS's crossover service. If it doesn't cross at MS66, it stays in the NGC holder. PCGS def. holds sway in the higher grades.
Last fall at a major coin show in Indiana, PCGS MS66 Common date Saints were going for $3000.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Let's wait and see what History Student has to say.

I would think that one could find better pricing going local, private and cash...

But HS has a far more sophisticated perspective than I.

ST

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG I bought MS61's and MS62's from gainsvillecoins back in Jan 2007 they were all $675-$695. POG at the time was $625 and GAE's were going for $650.

[edit] They were all common date $20 gold coins a mixture of Libs and Gaudens.

My reasoning was that since I knew squat about numismatics I was going to buy certified coins with the closet relationship to spot gold price.

These have since doubled in price. They are a mixture of NGC and PCGS.

I think these lessor value certified coins would be counterfeited less than the higher MS grades.

These coins have done better than the bullion coins I bought at the same time. Remember certified coins fluctuate from time to time independent from the POG.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I agree with foolsgold. I could understand wanting the Gaudens because they are beautiful, but you can get that pleasure by purchasing ones as close to spot as possible while still visually appealing. That way you lessen your risk of being a numi noobie.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I think I'd go for quantity, buy 3 for the cost of one graded SG, I'd almost think it'd be a better return on your investment too...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Personally I would get more bang for the buck and get as much gold as I could for the $3500 or so you had mentioned. I guess I am a bit of a cheapskate when it comes to investing in individual coins. Plus the fondle factor for three Gold Double Eagles raw is much better than one slabbed. :applause_

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You've probably heard the old real estate expression, "buy on the fringe and wait". Well that applies to coin collecting too.

What I mean, is you find a common date slabbed Saint Gauden's say an MS-63 and it lists for $1500, but the next grade up, it might jump to $2500, whereas another common date might only jump up to $1800.


So your in effect buying on the fringe of it's lowest price, before the grade get ridiculously expensive. In time, the next lower grade starts to command better money.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

applies to real estate not so much rare coins.......check the past performance. buy the best you can afford as the best coins in turn provide the best returns!

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Thank you all for the opinions. I really appreciate them. It looks like people feel very different about buying these kind of coins, and I figured I would get an array of opinions.

I still don't know what to do. APMEX has a 1908 MS66 St. Gaudens that was graded by NGC (the one I've shown above) for $3,235.

OR

They have the option to buy an MS66 Saint graded by PCGS for $15 more, but they get to pick the date.

Hernancortes mentioned above that when dealing with these types of coins, it is better to get PCGS graded ones. Does anybody else feel this way as well?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I have checked past performance, my own. That's why i'm very happy about my Saints and would not hesitate to follow the same pattern again when buying them.

That's my method, everybody is free to follow their own.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

If I had a $3500 budget for a pre-33 gold, I'd go for a slabbed "classic head" $5 gold piece - they are rarer and in my opinion will increase in value quicker than most $20 gold. Try to find one from the old, closed mints like C for Charlotte or D for Dahlonega (not Denver). If you take your time you should be able to find a high AU, maybe a MS for that budget.

http://www.nwrarities.com/images/Cla..._Eagle_obv.jpg

http://www.coinfacts.com/half_eagles...alf_eagle.html

EDIT: I forgot to add, if you get one dated between 1834 and 1837, then you have a coin that circulated during the days of Andrew Jackson's presidency. Now who wouldn't want a coin like that?!?!?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Yes, if you're getting a highly graded coin, go with PCGS, they are much pickier when it comes to coins; if it passes the PCGS MS-65 test you can be sure you have an MS-65 coin.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Gotcha. Thanks for that tid-bit. I am fairly new to Numis, so this information is very valuable to me.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

That is an awesome coin. I will see what I can find. I don't think APMEX has any of those in stock.

Do you know of any online dealers that have a good supply of pre-1933 slabbed gold?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I can only offer my personal experience -

I started off by buying slabbed to get my feet wet.
Progressed to buying raw coins and got stung a few times on sliders.

The learning curve is pretty steep - but the upside is that I ended up with coins in the safe that appreciated enough to recoup the initial buy in.

I personally prefer to buy a specific coin (buy the coin, not the holder).
If you are in or near a large metro you could have some fun visiting dealers and seeing a bunch of coins. Finding a knowledgeable dealer that you click with also gives you a adviser that can help you grow your collection efficiently. Keep in mind even the crusty,cantankerous dealers are at heart coin nuts and will respond to someone with a real interest.
You won't get this (IMO, critical) value-added service online.

As far as NGC vs. PCGS

I tend to send my higher value material to PCGS and will pay a bit more of of a premium for PCGS slabs over NGC.

Finally - when you consider what the future may hold for the POG, buying numis is a great hedge with the benefit of owning a work of art with real intrinsic value.

Have fun,

ST

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I feel the exact same way. I have plenty of bullion, now I want something unique. I have also always been fascinated by old coins, especially old GOLD coins. Now, I just need to settle on one. I am torn between the Liberty Double Eagles and the Saints. There is something (not sure what) that is drawing me more towards the Liberty Head.

I am not having much luck finding anything online worth buying. I visited a local shop, but they didn't have much to offer.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I did a quick google search for "gold coin dealer" and found some examples for sale, but nothing higher than an AU-58, plus no PCGS either. Here's what I found:

http://www.cccoinandcurrency.com/gol...5018777e6b1a83

http://www.procoins.com/p.php?pic=17999

http://johnbhamrickcoins.com/jbhonli...m?itemID=10252

If it was me, I'd start by calling all the dealers in my area to see if they by chance have one. If not, I'd spend all day browsing the web, as long as it took to find one I liked. If you don't mind ebay, I bet you could get one there easier.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

It does look awesome. The "problem" is, it's graded by NGC and not PCGS. It seems that the general consensus is that when buying coins like these, PCGS is the way to go.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You may have to hit the nearest major metro - grab your wife \ GF and enjoy the weekend.

I go into NYC a few times a year - I go book and coin hunting and the GF hits 5th Ave. and the village.

If you combine it with business you can write most of it off.:biggrin:

ST

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I know you said you were looking for MS-63 or 64 but I found these and thought they looked interesting. I've bought foreign fractional gold from this site in the past and I was always pleased with the product and service.

Some of these coins are listed as BU, I'm not sure how that compares to a slabbed coin. I'm not a Numi only a bullion hoarder so please excuse my ignorance just thought this site might help in your search.

http://www.coastcoin.com/items.asp?Cc=20-DOL-GOLD&Bc=

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I've actually bumped up my preference to MS65 or MS66 in PCGS.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I haven't checked their site but both of these dealers were at a bigger Chicago coin show I went to at the end of June, and both seemed to have a fair amount of gold at the time:

http://www.certifiedassets.com/Dealers/

www.gainesvillecoins.com

Might be worth poking around...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Smart move...PCGS is the king of grading companies right now, and seem to have the best value when it comes time to resell.

Also, MS-65 or better is the key benchmark for brilliant uncirculated non-modern (pre-1965 I guess) coins from what I have read. I read this advice somewhere, I think in a coin collecting book and applies to what to buy when doing it for investment purposes.

One thing I should say is to follow the saying "buy the coin, not the slab". That means you should inspect the coin that was graded to make sure it matches the grade provided by the third party grader. They have quality controls in place, but they make mistakes too. Plus grading is subjective even from places like PCGS or NGC. PCGS may call it a MS-64, but if you take it to even experience dealers with the grade covered and ask them to grade it, you will likely get a range of grades due to the subjectivity of it.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I'd throw in another few bucks and BUY 3 UHRs

But I'm a stinkin' riverboat gambler! :111:

Imagine if that's the last coin in gold ever available from the US MINT in the COLLECTOR status - before they kill the :36_1_25: MONSTER boxes?

Evay Evay decisions decisions :Surrender:

:wink:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Hey, Gordon:

Whatever coin you buy, make sure it is slabbed by PCGS, currently the most respected grading company on the block. Every company fudges but PCGS is perceived to be the most honest.

Perhaps I could tempt you into thinking about early silver or gold dollars. There is history and quite a conversation piece. Silver or gold from the late 1700's to early 1800's will always increase in value, there are simply not that many out there compared to other coins.

Another era that can be profitable (I am assuming at some point in time you will sell this - that would be my plan) are US trade dollars minted from 1873-1855). Finding them in MS is fairly rare. These coins were used in the orient by US merchants for trading overseas. They demanded more silver in our coins for trading, and we obliged for awhile. Most of these have the merchants chop marks in them. Some of the chop marks can add value if that merchant had some notariety. Most do not add value and subtract significantly.

If you want some history early silver/gold dollars or trade dollars fit the bill. I think they are beautiful coins, will always be in demand and spark great conversations.

Good luck in choice.

The Great Ag

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

The problem with collector only coins is you have to find somebody who thinks exactly like you do for it to have any value above the gold content, and have the money to do anything about it.
The second part it the main problem.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

So true my RICH RICHY Aunt asked me how she can buy PCGS slabbed Saints.

Somebody told her about them - NOT me.

So the ones with the BUCKOS will find you down the road.......:36_3_12::36_1_25:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

This is a very cool coin. But the mintage numbers in the link are way off from what I see in my Gold Rush book. One or the other is wrong (or I'm looking at the wrong coin in my book).

Here's what I see in the book (this is a scan).

BTW, Mr. Gekko, I noticed that you titled this thread "What to Do?!?!" sounds like you're pumped to make a quick decision. My advice is to step back and take a breath, take your time. This is a pretty lofty investment in one coin. I think it's a great idea, but for that kind of money, I would certainly take my time, and go really slow with it. You want to make sure you get the PERFECT coin for yourself. This is a big investment. Like someone else has wisely said, you will be paying big bucks for a coin that an exclusive type of person (such as yourself) will want to own. They need to share your admiration for the coin, and have the huge bucks to afford it and drive the price up. This is a small niche market. Choose wisely, sir.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I believe you're looking at a quarter eagle ($2.50) instead of the half eagle $5.00 that was suggested...
Firenhole

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Thanks Firenhole. I knew there was a logical reason somewhere. :36_1_32v:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I think madfranks idea is a good one, but I caution anyone making numismatic purchases to do a LOT of research before buying right now, and be prepared to hold on for a period of years if necessary.

If I had $3500 to spend on any US coin, I'd be trying to shake a sharp looking VF 1916D Merc loose somewhere. I know it's not pre-33 gold, but it's one of those coins you feel lucky just to own. That same sense of enjoyment is what I'd be trying to find in a pre-33 gold coin, and that's a matter of personal opinion that the OP will have to discover for himself to some extent.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I've had a couple of dealers independently (in the business for 20+ years) advise me to do the same.

I, like other posters appreciate the $5 Half Eagles and $10 Eagles (Indian Head variety) and will be following the 'fringe method + Au content' when I begin my collection...slabbed

Double Eagles both raw and slabbed at this point are too expensive for my liking in conjunction with their Au content.

I believe the $5 & $10 IHs still have a good 'Au to numismatic' ratio.

With that, how can one go wrong with the classic Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You're absolutely right Apocalypto. I realized it last night when I was in the movies. I just need to take a step back and take a breather. There's really no rush in the purchase, just excitement.

I will be doing research all weekend and through next week and we'll see what happens from there. I found an old silver dollar on Ebay from 1799 that looked like it was in pretty good shape:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1799-Dollar-PCGS...d=p3286.c0.m14

Yes, it's not gold, but it's from the 18th century! How cool! I don't think I would make a purchase like this from Ebay - too much risk involved.

Please keep the suggestions coming guys. I am keeping my mind very open as to what I am going to buy.

Basically, something old, rare (somewhat at least), and aesthetically pleasing.

Go nuts!

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Tad too esoteric for me and somewhat overpriced. Stick to GOLD. Unless you have a LOT of those dollars. I have a few 20 coin boxes of Morgans and Peace ones graded MS64 to MS66.

I'd rather have two $20 gold coins - frankly for about the same price if graded in the $2000 range. :signs14:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I would go with a auction house.

go with a "key date" coin

or a high grade 64 $20 gold lib or 65 St gaudens

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I'm going with History Student, buy the UHRs. IMO, they have the most bang for the buck, wrt appreciation over time. I know you're looking for old gold, but if you're not a numismatist, you may be learning an expensive lesson.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Gorgeous looking coin, but I would probably not get something like this off of EBay. I have heard of fake TPG (third party grader) coins floating around out there. So I would stick with a reputable dealer or coin shop, and maybe even look for one with the CAC green sticker on it.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Beautiful coin, GG! Prettiest bust out there! I agree, I would not buy a coin such as that from eBay. Too much risk involved, unless the seller was local.

The Great AG

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I don't really understand why so many people are saying there is "too much risk involved in Ebay". That's nonsense.

If your a paypal member in good standing with ebay and buy from another member in good standing, your full purchase price is protected. The way to check if this, is to scroll down on each auction and check where it says what form a payment is accepted and then that's where it usually says something similar to "pay using paypal, and your full purchase price is protected". So even in a worst case scenario, you'll get your money back if the seller tries to rip you off.

I would obviously stick to sellers who have been members for a long time, have 99%+ feedback and have a history of selling coins.

I've bought and sold many thousands of dollars worth of coins on Ebay. Just follow the rules and you'll be fine.

It's actually geared more nowadays for the buyer. The seller is the one who has to make sure they have done everything right, in order to prevent being taken advantage of. (i.e. insurance, tracking, signature delivery, etc.)

If you can find what you want locally at the right price, that's great, but many times I can't. And I have 6 coin dealers within 10 miles of my house.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I prefer to buy my PMs locally. Most of the .999 silver (and gold) on ebay is overpriced but if a person is patient enough, then good deals can be had on ebay. I have won a few 1-oz silver art bar auctions on ebay at a somewhat decent premium with no problems at all from the sellers. When it comes to ebay it is DYODD.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

For the most part your right. However, one method I use for getting good deals on pm's is to edit my search criteria to something like "Gold" in the search line, then filter my results into "coins and currency" category, and display only "buy it now" items, then list according to "newly listed".

You just have to refresh every minute or two. Then you can be certain to be one of the first people to actually view the auction. Sometimes, you can get some amazing deals this way. But most of the time, you can get bullion at spot price or a little below. Which means these auctions go really fast. Sometimes they go in 10 seconds, 30 seconds, might take a minute or two.

But if it's a REALLY good deal, you have to be prepared to buy right then. That means you gotta scan their identity, see how long they been a member, what their feedback is, and be 100% sure that what they are selling is what is listed, and then jump on it.


If you follow an ebay auction for 7 or 10 days, until it ends, you can be absolutely certain that at that specific time, you are willing to pay more for that item than anyone else on earth.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I set my max. bid at $4 over spot silver and that includes shipping costs. I set that max. bid at $4 over spot silver because that is the maximum price that I am willing to pay for a 1-oz silver art bar on ebay. At $4 over spot silver max. bid, I get outbid numerous times but that is fine with me because every once in a while I will win one at $4 over spot silver (or less).

I would rather get outbid on a 1-oz silver art bar at $4 over spot silver because I do not want to end up paying $25 or more for a silver art bar. For every 1-oz silver art bar auction on ebay that I win, I will lose between 30-40 ebay auctions when I set my max. bid at $4 over spot silver. That is fine with me because I am a very patient person.

I only use ebay for bidding on 1-oz '70's silver art bars.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I remember a couple of years ago, I bought some 1 ounce silver "art bars" from my local dealer, because he didn't have anything else at the time for bullion, so he sold them to me for spot.

To be honest, I didn't even really want them, but spot was low, so I went ahead and did it. Later on, I decided to get rid of them and tossed them on ebay figuring I would get at least spot for them.

I was blown away at how much those things sold for. There is a real genuine collector's market for those art bars from 60's and 70's. I had many people emailing me asking about others I might have and wanting details and descriptions. Apparently a couple of the ones I had were in high demand and brought a substantial amount over spot when they sold.

If I ever have a chance to pick some more of those up at a decent price, i'm gonna jump on them.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I usually can buy '70's silver art bars at my local dealer for about $2 over spot on average. If I go to a coin show, I can sometimes get them for $2 over spot or less. The '70's silver art bar market is strong on ebay. Even if spot silver falls to $9-$10, some of these '70's silver art bars will sell for $20-$25 on ebay. Some of these silver art bars have "rarity" values that are $20 or more. That is $20 "rarity" value + spot silver = total value of silver art bar. I like collecting those '70's silver art bars but I do not want to pay $25+ for them and that is why I buy majority of them locally because my local coin dealer will price art bars at the same price that he will price other .999 generic silver.

In my honest opinion, here is what Gordon should do (if for collecting purpose only): Buy some '70's silver art bars at your local dealer. If your local dealer does not have any '70's art bars then bid on one on ebay. That is just an idea on "What to Do".

I am sorry for getting off topic since you are asking "What to Do" when it comes to gold. :offtopic: :signs14:

As for the topic about "What to do" when it comes to pre-1933 gold, here is what I would do, If you have done DYODD and you REALLY like this pre-1933 gold coin and have the cash to pay for it, then go ahead and buy it. Do not buy it as an investment but buy it as something that you really like to collect.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

The grade was rather low and that's a lot of money for a coin that was basically a second edition of a coin started some 13 years prior.

Frankly - for the money I prefer a gold coin - when you are talking thousands of dollars.

Thanks - I was a bit obtuse.

:thumb.aspx::111:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I am having a really tough time finding any MS64+ 19th Century Liberty Double Eagles online. This is kinda what I am leaning towards (assuming I can afford one in my price range).

Does anybody know of any good online dealers that have a decent inventory of Pre-1933gold?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

If you live near a large city I would visit a large dealer's store. No need to rush a purchase like this. Not like you can stop yourself out of a bad trade in seconds. Make haste slowly. If you think the manipulators of the bullion market are tough wait til you start swimming in this pool.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

That's good advice. So, do you think it is pretty safe to go to a local dealer for a purchase like this rather than buying from an online dealer like APMEX or Gainesville Coins? (These dealers don't have much available in terms of 19th century Liberty Double Eagles).

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

In these LIBERTIES I noticed that the CIVIL WAR ones are really hard to find.

You might suffer a grade lowering - but they are always in demand - at least for the last twelve years for me - thay have been.

Also look for the major PANIC years 1873 - 1893 - 1907

Look into the book - DOUBLE EAGLES for a few bucks

A guide Book of Double Eagle Gold Coins: A Complete History and Price Guide (Official Red Books) (Paperback)
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AMAZON.COM - to have a more basic approach to buying. The prices are 2003 however - but they still follow the water level - all ships rise or sink with the tide....:36_1_63:

Best,

hs

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I called 5 local dealers, none of which had anything that I am interested in.

I am looking for a 19th Century, $20 Liberty Dollar graded PCGS MS63 or higher.

Is it taboo to buy something like this off of Ebay?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

These guys had some certified gold when I was in there last week. Of course it changes day to day, but might be worth trying:

http://www.jimscoins.com/

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Here is another place. This is where I plan to buy my 1,000 year old coin. Bob, will work with you.


http://bobsrarecoins.com/default.aspx

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Gordon this is one of the most respected firms in the entire business.


http://www.stacks.com/program/gold.aspx

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG... I would check out Barry Stuppler at www.stuppler.com he has a program called "CoinStats" where he has Saint's, Double Eagles and most series coins silver and gold. He has more certifications and years of numismatic service in many different organizations. I bought a Morgan dollar from him 8 years ago using his Coinstats recommendation and I am very satisfied with the outcome. I hope this is some help, Barry will write back too you and answer any questions you have, he used too put together a personal Coinstat for whatever coin you're interested in and there's NO obligation to purchase from him, although his investment grade coin inventory is usually tremendous.
Firenhole

ps. yes I get a 80% commission.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You can also try these guys: http://www.harlanjberk.com/unitedsta...entorygroup=us

They don't seem to currently have what you want but I'd keep an eye on that page if I were you.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

History Student what do you think of the 8 coin set recommended by California Numismatics in PCGS MS63 grade?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Thank you guys for the links.

I still can't seem to find what I am looking for.

I am about to just bite the bullet and roll the dice on APMEX. They have the option to buy a PCGS MS64 Liberty Double Eagle at $2,875 but there is one catch: they get to pick the date.

https://www.apmex.com/Product/10292/...CGS_ONLY_.aspx

I want a 19th century one, so I called APMEX and asked if they could help me out. They just said that they pick the date at random. I figure, they minted them from 1850-1907, odds are I will get one from the 1800's. BUT, I wish there was a guarantee.

It's a shame I am afraid to order off of Ebay. They haveplenty of the coins I am looking for.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I think if you buy now you are buying at a high... this is what I paid in May of 2008 from Apmex.
Order Items
Qty Item Price Ext. Price
1 $20.00 Liberties (MS-64) - (Certified by PCGS ONLY!) $1,815.00 $1,815.00
I know you really want the coin but now might not be the best time to purchase it. If you do decide to buy it anyway type in a special request that you are really hoping to get one from the 1800's. They may try their best to please you and it doesn't cost anything to ask!!!!! Has worked for me in the past:biggrin:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Wow, now they are $1,000 more a little over 1 year later? Geeze. Looks like I am a little late in this gravy train. I don't know what to do now. I don't want to get screwed, ya know?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I know that feeling...I am holding some dry powder at the moment too...I don't know what to do either:Surrender::thumb.aspx:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Yea, I am just REALLY itching to get a Double Eagle from the 1800's in a solid grade (by PCGS). I just don't want to "overpay".

SOS!

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

They pick the date? Deal killer for me. Have you checked the population at Coin Facts?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG you will most likely get a 1904.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

And that is exactly what I am afraid of. I REALLY want a 19th century one. I will just keep looking.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG, We are priced out of the market for pre-1930 right now. Markets go up and they go down. One day you will get that coin! Patience may be in order for now. Think about this... You could get that proof buffalo and another UHR with change left over from what you would have spent on the Liberty MS64. Always remember the difference between wants and needs. Right now we can get more gold for our monopoly money if we don't waste it:coolbeer:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I am just really afraid the prices will just continue to rise. These coins only get older and older. They have time on their side. That, coupled with the fact that I think the POG will greatly appreciate for years to come, make me doubtful there will be any significant decrease in the prices of these coins.

Can anybody else chime in? Am I too late to the show?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Why don't you try out a auction house, check this out. They normally have a heap of the stuff you seem to be interested in.

http://coins.ha.com/common/search_re...4294959522&Ns=

ps I agree with the time on their side part. You can always make more gold buffalo or what ever other coin but make me another ms65 1907 saint? I'll put up two oz's of gold and still it can not be done.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Thanks I enjoyed checking out the pricing offered at the e-store.

Best wishes,

HS :clap2:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I see NO 1926 common dates they are getting hard too find - period.

BUY those GG (hint, hint!) - if you can't stand the UHRs any MORE?

Best wishes, :Surrender:

HS :emotions16:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

The deal is the LATER ones were higher MINTED!

:signs14:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

BUY something UNDERVALUED look around look around.

Best wishes,

HS :emotions16:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Well, I have pretty much narrowed it down to either:
A. $20 Liberty Double Eagle from the 1800's in PCGS MS64 or above

OR

B. $20 Saint Gaudens in PCGS MS66 (no specific date?)


What do you guys think?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG, I'm with him. But, I would go with the St. Gaudens. Especially since I own a couple of the UHR 2009's now. Either way you go, I would love to be in your predicament.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Sounds like you made your decision earlier. Option A, gives you what you want, a 19th century coin. Option B, may not. "Deal or no deal?"

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Why dont you contact GIM member Scott (APMEX President I believe) through here and ask for help on getting the date you want? It's not like you're asking for help on a $50 coin. His member name is just APMEX I believe.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Lots UNDERVALUED HEREIN

http://www.golddealer.com/bullionpage.html

I'd say the whole LIST come 12 months from NOW ESPECIALLY...

Look long and hard at the

SOVEREIGNS or 1/4 ounce Eagles

good size good value - and PACK a hell of a PUNCH when gold goes to

say, $4,000 - that'll be a grand each then.............


:111::111::111::signs1::signs14:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG, give this guy a call. His name is Bob of bobsrarecoins.com out of Knoxville Tn, maybe he can help. Not saying he will, just giving you another avenue of opportunity.

phone # 865-385-4315

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

http://bobsrarecoins.com/stgaudens.aspx

Double Eagles, what you're looking at.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

1926 D MS64

$ 81,300.10

:36_1_25:

Is that all? This must be some hard to get coin.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

It seems that the St. Gaudens he is selling are either the very rare dates on the expensive end, or common date ones on the too cheap end. I am looking for a happy medium :)

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

OK, Apmex it is then.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I wish it were that easy. APMEX does not currently have any PCGS MS66 Saints where you can actually choose the date. They only offer the option for THEM to choose the date in that grade. :mad_m:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG, if you are set on a St. Gaudens, have a good look at the "motto" vs. "no motto" coins. IMO, the "no motto" is a prettier coin as the reverse is not cluttered up with the extra text.

http://rarecoins.org/images/Saint-Ga...o-No-Motto.jpg

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Well, the mint really F-uped (scuse the french) the 2009 by putting that phrase on the coin. I really like the cleanliness of the 1908, wish I had the FRN's to purchase one. Why couldn't they mint the 2009 it that way??? :thumb.aspx:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Yep I'm with TEDDY "BEAR" ROOSEVELT on that one - too.

However, In GOD is our ONLY trust - cause the REPUBLICANO-DEMOCRATOS

kinda flubbed the dub over the last 14 months - and we are gonna go down like APPOLO CREED! The Three stooges :Joker Obama; Big Mouth Biden; and mess over Israel Clinton will assure it! Sorry :signs14::yes: for the politics - but we are so LUCKY now that 40 some percent are TOMMY JEFFERSON Independents. Demos 32 % Repubos 22 % Libertarians 40%

We's got the makin's for a NEW party revolution. :thumb.aspx:

Best wishes,

HS

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

you kinda got bad timing with gainesville going down because if they were up they have quite a large collection of the stuff your looking for where you can pick your own date.

check these guys out

http://www.buyrealcoins.com/index

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

They tried the same thing on Canadian coinage in 1911: they omitted "dei gratia" (often "dei gra" or "D:G") and there was so much public complaint that they had to put it back on the coins in 1912. To this day, the coins still say: "Elizabeth II D:G Regina" (Elizabeth II / queen by the grace of god).

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Found what I am looking for...but it's on EBAY!! :thumb.aspx:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1898-s-20-libert...:B:SRCH:US:101

What do you guys think? The seller has a lot of positive feedback and seems to do a lot of business.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

The coin is estimated at around $2400-$2900.

Here are a few recent auction prices for 1898-S in MS64

Sunday, August 2, 2009 $2,760.00
Sunday, July 12, 2009 $2,990.00
Sunday, August 2, 2009 $2,990.00
Sunday, July 12, 2009 $2,645.00
Sunday, July 12, 2009 $2,990.00

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Did you get those prices off of Ebay? Also, are those in PCGS MS64 or NGC MS64? I have noticed that the PCGS grades tend to fetch a little bit more than the NGC grades.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I would avoid large purchases on fleabay like the plague.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Both PCGS and NGC. What you are talking about with PCGS and NGC only really occur in the higher priced coin, not so much with the coins you are looking at.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Common inuition tells me that I agree with your statement. But a part of me says, why not? If the seller is reputable (this particular seller has their own Ebay business set up and has over 3,000 positive feedbacks) then it is a pretty safe bet.

Can anybody else chime in here regarding buying a coin like this off of ebay?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I tend to agree with you but I have lingering doubts about ebay.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

personally never have but a buddy of mine recently purchased a key date morgan for 5 figures of ebay. transaction went quite well, just go with someone reputable.

only reason I have never is because the prices are not really too good but I guess there are gems to be found.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Well since we're on the subject of 1898-S's, I have one I cracked out of a MS61 NGC holder and submitted to PCGS thinking it was better than that, but apparently they found a tiny rub on it, which I think is in Liberty's hair. Came back AU58. So if ya wanna lower your sights some, let me know Save ya about $2000 off that overrated MS 64 on ebay LOL

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

This particular Ebay seller is named "au3000" and they are a Power Seller. They have an Ebay Store set up under the name "Gold Silver and Platinum Rare Coins". They have 2,531 100% positive feedback.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG, I am sorry but if you snooze you lose! Thanks for finding that nice coin for me:36_3_13::emotions16:I used Buy It Now and applied the 10% bing.com cashback and saved some $$$.
























:36_1_32v::signs14:Just messing with you!:moon:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Hey, GG:

Check your PMs, I sent one out.

He is asking far TOO much for that coin.

The Great Ag

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Do you have any experience buying coins from the Heritage Auction? I am not a member but am contemplating joining to bid on a Liberty that I have found.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Ok guys, I found one on Ebay but the guy is asking WAY too much.

BUT, I found the same coin at the Heritage Auction and the price is currently at $2,400. Here's the link:

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item...4&Lot_No=26283


Does anybody have any experience buying coins from the Heritage Auction? Does it work just like Ebay? Is it "safer" than Ebay?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Thanks AG. I responded. You're right, though. They are asking a lot for that coin.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

:111: I was about to say...YOU GOT SCREWED! They are asking SO MUCH for that coin. No way Jose!:thumpdown

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I'd sell you my MS63 PCGS 1898-S - BUT I LIKE IT!

Anyway - the MS63 was $2200 two months ago - NOW $2900 PCGS prices

SO YOU WAITED TOO LONG ...

Wait or but 3 UHRs

:111::111::111:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I have done a fair bit with heritage, they are ok. The site makes everything quite clear and the past history is great way to check value.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Heritage is top notch but your coin's reserve w/ buyer's premium is $2990, if nobody else bids is that in your price range?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

GG....LESS THAN 4 HOURS AND NO BIDS...HERE'S YOUR CHANCE!!!!!! :23_30_104:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I got the coin! Woot. I was the lone bidder. My "secret max bid" was at $2,500. I won the auction at $2,400 ($2,777 after buyer's premium). I think it's a pretty solid deal. A lot better than what I was contemplating doing at APMEX (paying $2,850 + shipping) for a "random date" PCGS MS64 Liberty Double Eagle.

I will post pics as soon as it arrives! I can't wait.

Thank you all for the help. I truly appreciate it. It's very comforting to know that I am in such good hands here at GIM. :15_1_70v:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Good deal GG :beer::clap2:
Post those pics when you get her!

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I am such a slacker. You guys must have been thinking I didn't even get the coin. Alas, here are some pics for your viewing pleasure.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Beautiful coin...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

These pics aren't the best, but I tried...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

One more for now...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Had to bust out the UHR too. She was getting jealous...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

That's awesome GG! Thanks for posting the pics. I really love the reverse on the Liberty coin.

:shine::banana:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

A true piece of art...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I love her curves...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

She is so three dimensional and to think we got those UHRs on the cheap compared to todays price!!!!

:23_30_104::36_3_16:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Yeah!! I love this. Good job, man.

Ironically, just tonight I shipped my UHR to PCGS for its grading (still in the mint box for the First Strike designation) Along with the UHR is a 2009 Buffalo proof. I'll let you know how it turns out.

That first pic is gorgeous! Looks like a piece of candy.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

No kidding! I paid $1,189 for the coin (plus $90 to send it to PCGS). So, in essence, my cost basis is roughly $1,300 and I have seen them go for $2,400 on Ebay. Not too shabby if I may say. :15_1_70v:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You're welcome! I will be hoping for the best!!! No matter what, you have a piece of numismatics history in your hand. PCGS FS MS70 here we come! :getdown:

So you did end up getting the Buffalo proof; that is awesome. I would love to see it if you ever get a chance to post some pics. I am still contemplating buying one.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

The lighting in the pics wasn't the best. It's past midnight so I didn't put much effort into it. One of these days I am going to take some quality pics.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

That is a good idea to "take her out" Gordon because I have no idea what "gold" ladies might do when they get "scorned". :111:

I love her thickness. She looks wonderful in a PCGS slab and her looks deserve a MS70 grade because she looks so perfect. :36_3_13:

The UHR is a wonderful coin Gordon. :bear_thumb: :bear_thumb: :bear_thumb:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

How does one submit a raw coin to a grading service and come out with a First Strike designation? :doesntunderstand

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Here are the steps I took:

1. Ordered the coin from the U.S. Mint
2. Once received, took to my local dealer (PCGS authorized dealer) and had him send it in on my behalf (for a fee).
3. Waited
4. Waited some more
5. Got the call that the coin had been graded and it was a First Strike MS70
6. Picked up coin from shop.
7. Paid dealer $95
8. Cried with joy.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

#1 & #2 answers my question. thanks

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You can also get a PCGS membership yourself and send it in.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Looks like Lady Liberty has some road rash on her face, other than that the fields are very nice and clean. I'm a bit surprised based on those photographs that that's an MS-64 coin... did you get to examine and choose this coin yourself or did you get it from APMEX where they just sent you a date of their choice?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Yea, she has some surface scratches. I got the coin from Heritage Auctions. All of the other MS64's from 1898 that I have seen were basically in the same shape. The coin is in great shape for being over 100 years old, that's for sure.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

It's very common to see scratches on her face, since that's one of the areas of highest relief. You see the same thing in Morgans. These are all the same year and MS64. Faces scratched all around. All in all, I find Mr. Gekko's coin is very shiny and new looking, the wear is not too bad at all. (I would guess the lighting he used for his shot isn't that flattering as well.)

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Exactly. It is a very common place to see scratches like these. Perhaps I will take some better quality pictures.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Half price compared to NEXT month when they are DISCONTINUED like 99% of the PMs at the mint. :signs14:

So WE ALL Hope everyone has enough, right? :23_30_104:

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

For around $260 PCGS allows you 1 year membership to submit and a certificate to send in 4 coins complimentary.

NGC is around $109 for similar service and 5 coins and they don't lose your coins (I'm sorry I was screwed over in the past).

NGC treats me rather GRAND - especially now - I wonder why?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I hope that all those plastic coin holders are recyclable when the BIG MELDOWN happens. My coin dealers assistant has already joked about buying hammers and eye protection for the BIG MELTDOWN that is going to come.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Say what??? Please elaborate.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

They are figuringthat the coins with be worth about a MILLION dollars a PIECE so the SLABS won't matter ANYMORE -

My guess is that SOON SOONER SOONEST TPTB are going to do the 1933 FDR dance with Obummer and trade the current currency at a 3 to 1 split with the new so just like FDR KNOCK down the CURRENCY 66 2/3% (FDR did a 69% hit when he devalued gold as currency from $20 to $35 using paper money as the stand - the gold was GONE and is gone today).

So gold in you possession will rise 300% that specific day.

So keep the green stuff certificates and get 33% back in blue and red stuff;

or wait till day after and make 300% on your gold coins.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I'll trade you a UHR PCGS MS70 for it straight across...

Come on be brave....

:111::111:

that'll go good with my MS62 MS63 1898-S twins....

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Thanks, GG:

I love the heraldic eagle on the reverse. Definitely drool fool! It is my second favorite eagle design.

I enjoyed the pics especially the angled view of the UHR.

The Great Ag

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Are you crazy boy??? Where's that sarcasm sign?!...

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You're welcome AG. I love these coins. I think my next numi purchase is going to be a PCGS MS66 Saint Gaudens. We'll see. I am hoping to post up some better quality pics this weekend. I was in a hurry when I took these. Glad you enjoyed!

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I liked that angled view as well. Very nice. I wonder what people would pay for a 2 ounce version of the UHR. Holy cow that would be a nice coin.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Not to persuade you one way or the other but the MS66's have lagged just about everything else in classic US gold. If you need one for your collection thats cool but they've stagnated for a reason.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

I have to agree with Hernancortes on the MS66s. I have a 1916 Saint in MS 66 that really hasn't appreciated the way I had hoped over two years of ownership, even with the steady climb in Au.

I dont know if this will get me in trouble with a mod, but everyone into early gold should look at Doug Winter's website for US gold. He is in my opinion ( and I think most everyone else's) the premier expert on early US gold alive today. His website offers what is generally the cream of the crop in Gold and even better, a blog that is excellent regarding market trends and for educational purposes. He is a little pricey if you do business with him, but you are getting exceptional quality coins and service for the extra 5% or so.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Thanks for the heads up HC. I always kinda wondered why the MS66 Saint Gaudens weren't too expensive. I want to get an old Saint Gaudens, but I am not too sure I can afford an MS67 and I figured the MS65's weren't as desirable as the MS66's. If you were going to purchase a Saint Gaudens, which would you prefer?

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

That would be awesome! APMEX has a really huge coin for sale; I forget where it's from though. I would definitely be interested in buying a 2 ounce UHR if it were minted.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You're asking the guy who passed on a nice ms64 in the old green rattler for 1500 a few months back. LOL My only finer moment was when I unloaded some proof AGEs last spring thinking they were looking 'toppy'
I dunno, St. G's aren't my 'specialty' but I had the same temptation for an MS66 a year ago when you the best you could score one for was $3000. More value in a MS63 or 64 and look hard for quality.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

You know I might pay 3500 if the ms66 was in a old green holder. Chances are any 66's you're offered today will have been graded in the last few years with the relaxed standards. I do think within the last year or so there has been a move toward stricter standards though.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

With the naked eye it's pretty difficult to tell the difference between MS63/MS64 and MS65/MS66. Given the populations of the Saints in a higher grades they don't seem to be keeping up with the Libs either. I have an MS63 Lib in a PCGS rattler that looks to me almost identical to Gordons. Same markings due to mint handling, etc. Cost was $745 in '04 now around $2700. Bought a MS65 Saint at the same time for $1335 now around $2700. Also snagged a MS64 $10 Indian for $1460, now around $2700. All are PCGS and common dates. Given the performance and return on investment I wish I'd bought all MS63 $20 Lib's.

Were I to take another flyer on one graded coin my bet would be on the MS64 $10 Libs, population of graded in both NGC and PCGS combined around 17,000. If my heart was set on buying a Saint it would be an MS65.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

Thank you both, gentlemen. I will do some more research. I figured it would be nice to add one of the original Saints to my collection since I have the 2009 version. I will check out the prices on the MS64 and 65's. I really appreciate your guys' input.

Re: What to Do?!?!
 

SAINTS MS63 desirable - in common dates

MS64 the BOTTOM line JEWEL

MS65 solid JEWEL

MS66 expensive top of the LINE JEWEL

MS67 unbelievably expensive JEWEL

Like the fellows' say above it is intesting to figure out what you want;

I'd rather have two MS63s than ONE MS66 however.

Period.